Liverpool Central Station chosen for Green Book pilot

Well done Steve Rotheram on this occasion.
Central Station and its environs have had a few false starts over the years maybe this can be the start of real progress and greater developments elsewhere.

This should be Steve’s Flagship project not the Barrage, as this would free up capacity on both local railways and longer distance ones by taking the burden away from Lime St so national rail routes benefit as eg we haven’t got direct trains to Edinburgh, Bristol, Cardiff, etc.
Still a bit surprising there aren’t plans to re-open the Edge Hill tunnels though.

So Rotheram expects government to hand over £2.5bn for Central Station alongside his fantasy scheme for tidal? Don’t hold your breath. At least Iain Jenkinson points out that Homes England and others moved the dial on appraising schemes a few years back, and rightly pointing out that some schemes are still held back by a weak regional market regardless of any Green Book change.

all feels very technocrat this stuff – just produce a business case as normal, even if the VfM is poor the government can fund it. No need for trials etc. These are political decisions.

National economic cost-benefit analyses including wages, property and land prices have, for many decades, been systemically biased in favor of public capital investment in the South East and London. Wow, what a big surprize! A knighthood for the Oxbridge brain-box who notice that out! I have known that for half-a-century. Do I get a medal?

So the Green book is dead? I thought it was the bible for the big 5 EY etc

An absurd sum for what at present is a mediocre redevelopment which would achieve nothing for the city. Rather than pressing ahead with a redevelopment that would integrate the City Line with the rest of Merseyrail, it appears Rotheram is giving the City Line away (and our revenue with it) and just chasing a commuter line to Manchester. He should keep his low ambitions to himself.

Its great that the Treasury has loosened the robustness of its appraisal methodology, reflecting the fact that so many schemes don’t make sense in economic terms and regional economies like liverpool will continue to be a net drain on UK plc. It will now be a free for all for perpetual public subsidy. Short termism at its best – a future government will row back on this but mark my words this is a backwards step

Don’t fully get Rotheram’s comparison with Kings Cross and St Pancras, I mean ok Lime St and Central aren’t that far apart, but the two London stations are only separated by crossing Pancras Rd or using the linking tunnel. Anyway any pedestrian tunnel linking Lime St and Central would only add to the costs and put Goverment off.
Nevertheless Central needs to expand given the volume of passengers so brownie points to the Mayor if he can get this project over the line.

Make changes that truly matter. When redeveloping Central Station, create a statement piece that will last for hundreds of years. Utilise every inch of the sight using all of the best sustainable ecological innovations.
Create something that becomes a positive part of the city.
The image in the picture looks like a short term vanity project, which is for show and will last decades rather than centurie; anything like that will look like it’s stuck on rather than being a part of a great city.
Don’t waste time, effort and money on predictable failures.

Agree with most of the comments, Central Station needs to be top notch and fit for purpose for the next 20 years and with a design that will age well. We also need Moorfields Station and surrounding area desperately upgrading and fitting for its location and usage.

The Central Line must be diverted away from Lime Street by using the Wapping tunnel to Central Station. Through trains should run from Southport, Ormskirk/Preston, Kirkby /Wigan to South Parkway, St Helens, Warrington and Wigan, without any of them terminating at Central Station. This would improve the capacity of the existing platforms and only require better access and infrastructure. Platform capacity thus released at Lime Street could be used for additional long distance services to London, Manchester (new line ), Plymouth ( via Bristol) Cardiff ( via Shrewsbury) and Edinburgh. An underground travelator from LimeSt to Central Station would provide a link between local train services at Central to long distance services at Lime Street

If there was to be a travelator link between Lime Street and Central it would have to be a long one, maybe between 300-400 metres. The travelator at Gare Montparnasse in Paris takes an age, and that’s around 200 metres.

Steve Rotherham is so desperate to make Liverpool a London 2.0 that he’s forgetting to consider the wider populace of Liverpool, and what matters to them. The new station shouldn’t be a “Kings Cross St Pancras” wannabe, it should be Liverpool Central Station and nothing more. The last thing Liverpool needs is a Southern touch; delays, underestimated funding, unproductive consulting that gives millions to firms to confirm what 10 other firms have already said, etc etc.

Sounds like good news. There is a level of transport investment appropriate to a major city region in a first world economy and I don’t think we are at that level yet.
Mention of Liverpool brings out the usual prejudices but that ignores the fact that so many of our regional cities have fallen well behind the capital under current investment rules. Manchester and Birmingham are surely prime candidates for underground rail systems. Leeds and Bristol have yet to start work on modern transport systems. Glasgow is still restricted to the subway circle dating from the 19c.
Liverpool does not need a London size underground but there are a limited number of investment projects that can make a profound improvement to transport in the city and region.

@ Martin 6.43pm, yes London’s tube network is huge as is the city itself, and Liverpool is not as big so it needs an urban rail network that provides for the Liverpool City Region and adjacent areas like North Wales, parts of Lancashire eg Skelmersdale, and Cheshire.
Central Station needs investment, but the Mayor has plenty of other opportunities to expand Merseyrail such as re-opening the Outer Loop Line, utilising the Wapping and Waterloo tunnels, even using the old Wapping Station with 2 or 3 platforms so trains can terminate. Meanwhile we know he’s in advanced discussions to take over the line from Bidston to Wrexham and beyond therefore making journeys into Liverpool so much easier for our Welsh cousins.

First the trains need sorting. We were promised an upgrade from 6 carriage trains to 8 carriage ones. Most of the new trains are 4 carriage ones so we have gone backwards. I was told by staff that there are only 2 of the 8 carriage trains functioning. This needs fixing, especially for commuting times and when the footy is on…..

£5Bn bring it on

@Martin Sloman I disagree, Liverpool does need a London sized underground. Merseyrail doesn’t even serve half of the city at present, and the goal should be for every part of the Liverpool City Region to be within a short distance to a station. London has had huge amounts of infrastructure investment over the years, so why shouldn’t all major cities in the UK have this and especially in the North West – the second most populated area of the UK. The economy and social mobility will not improve and grow unless everyone can access cheap, reliable, frequent and fast public transport so they can get to work or school.

Can we please have it integrated with the buses. I am fed up of having to drag a suitcase from either Liverpool 1, the Gyratory or Sir Thomas St across very busy roads. I thought the the transport system was supposed to be coordinated. What a fool 😭

England is becoming ever more Americanized. A Mayor is responsible for everything. A CEO is responsible for everything. The PM is responsible for everything. Is everybody else responsible for nothing?

This Green book is not dead. To rectify the decades of prejudice from Westminster, they would need to pump hundreds of billions into the North and Midlands, to redress the balance. People need to remember how much HS2 is costing and where that goes to. A tram to Stockport and a dolled up station in Liverpool is hardly revolutionary. Gatwick is getting a new runway, and there is talk of Heathrow’s expansion. There is no real change at the top.

@Elephant, I believe it’s a lot more than a “dolled” up station but a whole renewal of the immediate areas, here’s hoping:)

Needs at least a third platform and a link to the Wapping tunnel to allow City Line services into Central – note the the Metro Man its Merseyrail not Metro, how to destroy a well known brand

I’m not sure people are getting Rotheram’s KX-St Pancras analogy correctly. It’s not simply the connection of the two stations with a bit of tidying up. It’s the fact that a previously very seedy part of London has been transformed into a place that people now actually want to go to, and with the huge inward investment from companies based nearby, that has also helped transform it, such as Google.

We don’t need a stupid canopy. We need new stations and a link to JLA. What plans for Mcr?. Certainly not a pathetic canopy.
But hey..smoke and mirrors.

A very inexpensive start would be to have buses stopping outside the stations. Currently, just ONE bus, the 10a, stops outside Lime Street (inward only) and none outside Central.