Burnham sets target of 2050 for Manchester underground

Absolutely nuts!

Let’s go. Manchester (as usual) laying out a clear path for its next 20 years of growth. We need to streamline infrastructure delivery in this country to enable places like Manchester to fulfil their destiny and continue powering the UK’s economy. A truly second city on the emergence

Please get this built. An amazing idea.

If the only capacity increase is due for 2050 that is not a very good local rail service

This next step is an absolute must for Manchester now with the city center population alone passing 100k. If the gov wants growth it needs to look at places like Manchester that are delivering this and back them in order for them to fulfil their full potential. Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow and Leeds backed properly can be the key to getting the nations productivity up again.

25 years! I know there needs to be a long term strategy but that’s a quarter of a century!! Even crossrail took less than 20 years and that had so many challenges that Manchester doesn’t have! The north needs transport investment now not just in 20 years time.

Come on Manchester

I took the tram to East Didsbury yesterday. Manchester’s transport offer is now not fit for its size.

Get this done, lets lead the way and show how a modern city adapts. Get the trams off the street and cars out of the city centre. Make the redundant roads pedestrianised green corridors where bars and restaurants enliven these spaces.

Liverpool, Glasgow and Newcastle got their underground railways in the late 1970s while Manchester was left behind. All significant German cities have one. The lack of one here severely constrains productivity. Great that Burnham is behind it, but can’t we do it before 2050?

Don’t hold your breath!

City region Mayor is the easiest job in the world: you can churn out uncosted long-term vision stuff like this knowing that a) you don’t need to do any thinking about paying for it, because you’ll just go to the government, and b) you won’t be around and accountable if none of this ever happens.

This is what should have been on the table years ago when Leese and Berstein tried to foist that ridiculous congestion charge on us all

ZZZzzz, lets spend billions expanding the tram, now we have done that let s spend even more putting it underground 👍I hope Andy does challenge Kier Starmer just so we can get shut of him. He has already singlehandedly brought the city to a standstill with his road closers bus lanes and cycle lanes now he wants to look at an underground. This has been looked at time and time again, it doesn’t work, it will never work, there are to many existing tunnels under Manchester already not to mention the rivers as well… Are well least we can spend a few million coming to that conclusion…

How much is Burnham going to raise our council tax by to contribute to this? He’s already raised it by 20% since he was elected and if you’re in the suburbs there’s very little to show for it !!

Yes!! 100% get it built!

2050!?

The Norwegians started construction of ‘Rogaland fastforbindelse’ aka Rogfast (17 mile tunnel) in 2018 then halted in 2019 till late 2021 and aiming to get it done by 2033!

The Vikings should taken England when they had the chance! Get on with it Manchester!

Every few years, someone says Manchester’s big ideas are “nuts.” Well, if ambition is madness, then let’s go completely bonkers, or let’s just leave progress behind, and nobody’s signing up for that.
All good intentions, sure, but is this just another Burnham Bandwagon? What’s next, priority housing for ex-British service personnel and local families? (Actually… that wouldn’t be the worst idea, would it?)
Seriously, this is a brilliant concept, but let’s not forget: the tram cash was promised three times by the last Labour Government before it finally happened. Manchester knows how to wait… and then deliver.
With the city centre population smashing through 125,000, the stakes are higher than ever. This isn’t just growth, it’s a transformation. Manchester is, as usual, laying out a clear path for the next 20 years of progress. A true second city consolidating is position.
If this is considered “nuts,” then fine, let’s forget the second city consolidation and all do nothing and complain nothing happens round here. But somehow, I think Manchester has bigger plans.
Let’s go. Let’s build. Let’s lead. Because if any city knows how to turn ambition into reality, it’s Manchester.
My only negative point is Burnham is no Bernstein – despite Andy being seen in a few photo’s with a scarf.

So now he’s setting 25-year deadlines? What happened to him ending rough sleeping by 5 years ago? An underground link along the lines of the Tyne & Wear Metro (45 years old) at the very least is absolutely essential to future growth, but the huge amount of work – and funding – required can’t just be reduced to another publicity stunt to fill a gap in Andy’s media grid.

2050s l will be dead already I miss it 🤣

Anyone who knows anything after major infrastructure plans in this country knows 25 years is the standard. Dominic Johnson recently pointed out how ridiculous it was and the many reasons why we can’t get anything done quickly. Andy is sadly being realistic with timescales here . Got to start somewhere though..look at Manchester 25 yrs ago!

Well said Steve5839
Half of the commenters will be jealous, ill informed Daily Mail types

The underground section will be for Piccadilly, connecting to the wider rail network. If we’re lucky, there might be a small section for the Metrolink, more akin to a bridge to help ease capacity than anything in London. Some of you are setting yourselves up for major disappointment,

Andy Burnham needs to wake up and smell the coffee, I agree with planning for the future , but Mr Burnham seems not to see Greater Manchester is a car park currently at rush hour cost business millions of pounds, GM does not need an underground network, it would be cheaper to put the Metro into every town / city above ground , Mr Burnham needs to bring GM current infrastructure into the 21st century , the roads are a disgrace, Mr Burnham spends billions of pounds in the city of Manchester and neglects the outer boughs

Another month. Another “strategy”….

The slow crawl through Manchester is a real pain so anything that can get rid of the bottle neck to streamline the journey for those travelling east to west. Other than a mainline though, I’m not sure there’s justification for both Tram and underground servicing the same jobs on the whole.

Pie in the Sky What we need is more commuter stations on existing lines, more traffic on underused lines. This will cost next to nothing compared with Powerhouses Rail that will cost billions and be of doubious benefit to most commuters into the city centre

Finally things are going full circle. When the Metrolink was created In 1992 the government promised to tunnel the city centre for the trams but when the cost was made public said they could not afford to go ahead. Bet this will happen again!

Mr Tick-Tock: The Vikings did take England and settled north of the Danelaw. Modern English is only half Angle and Saxon but half Norse. Northern dialects are not poor southern English but the remains of Norse. Dont believe Southern England propaganda about fighting off the Vikings. Why is Knutsford called that. It is name after King Knut. Cheshire was settled by Danes. That is why our Mountains are called Fells, and Valley are called Dales. Norse, you see!

In the 1970s thousands of people were employed designing a Manchester underground. What has happened to all the drawings, specifications etc ?

2050 to build a minor tram tunnel. I wonder how much China or London would have done by then.

So many Guardian readers thinking they know how infrastructure planning works in Britain. You can’t get anything done even if you get funding in place. Too many vested interests, NGO’s and civil servants who will talk you down at every step. Bureaucracy gone mad , but of course that’s what they like.

What fabulous news for Northern power house. It certainly will include outside areas from manchester to various other central hubs. A DY burnham.. get this set in stone

Rachel Reeves promised an accouncement on Northern powerhouse rail “in the coming weeks” in June……. The weeks have long passed. The Tories had 14 years, spent £20 billion on London crossrail and £60 billion on HS2 South before cancelling the North. Will Labour go the same way? Reform have said they will cancel any Northern rail projects. I wish Burnham luck but it seems UK governments of all colours won’t invest in the north. Hopefully Reeves / Labour will stick to their promise?

Another day, another announcement of a grand vision that may never come to fruition.

I love the ambition of Greater Manchester and the mayor. Given the great economic strides of the last 30 years in GM I am confident that this will be achieved. Andy Burnham needs to keep up the pressure on this Government and future Government’s to make it happen.

Imagine if all of the perma whingers in the comments were taken back 25 or more years and had to plan Manchester for the future. They wouldn’t believe what they see now, couldn’t even begin to see the change. No imagination, no drive no ambition no idea. It’s almost as if they don’t come from Manchester .
Stick to chewing keyboards and leave the doing to the grownups, wrong city for moaning about ‘we can’t’ . We can.

Well said Drone On. I’m glad some of the pathetic low-ambition weakoids in this comments section weren’t around when Manchester was taking its first steps into the industrial revolution. We’d have all still been living in rural cottages surviving off the land. I’m glad we have politicians in Manchester that have high ambitions and a can-do attitude – it’s what separates the city from other places whose best days are well behind them.

You know Burnham and Manchester are doing something right when you have swathes of nay sayers in the comments crying out ‘this is ridiculous’ because none of them like to see little old Manchester punching above it’s weight and demanding more. London built the first underground lines in the 1800’s, it is ludicrous to think Manchester wouldn’t be able to build them today. Bore off you miserable boomers and get used to seeing this sort of news coming out of Manchester because it’s showing no signs of slowing down!

Rather than putting existing tramlines underground the priority should be building new rail corridors eg put the underground from the University to Pendleton, say.

Ill be 82 then that’s if I reach that age. However, theres been ambitius plans in the past for manchester. Tbh, I think once the costs have been taken into account , its going to take a lit more thinking over the business strategies and finances. We dont want another hs2 on our hands. Small study steps. Not one all blast. Even then it’ll take much more mony, and alot mire years, Ill probably not be around to see this, especially with AI will it provide the optimism they predict.

Anonymous 1.06pm – I am a boomer born in the early 1960s. When I grew up in Manchester in the 1970s and 80s much of the city centre was sad and decaying with a large and lively part of the centre demolished to make way for the dreadful Arndale centre, both United and City were pretty poor, the only thing which gave the city some credibility was the music and club scene. As a boomer I remember how down trodden the city was so I wholeheartedly welcomed the transformation of the city over the last 30 years and I relish the continued and future regeneration of the city. Please remember that Howard Bernstine and Richard Leese who are jointly responsible for starting the transformation of Manchester are both boomers. Boomers are not all narrow minded wearing rose tinted glasses about the past many of us are forward thinking and are as excited about the future of Manchester and Greater Manchester as you are. I hope to live long enough to see the underground system in Manchester and also see the Arndale centre demolished.

I don’t expect to be around, thank goodness. I think that there is no need for underground rail connections. Travelling on London Underground and Paris Metro are claustrophobic – aside from any major incidents.

Never mind building this.
We should be closing Manchester airport.
How is it fair that petrol and diesels are getting banned but jet planes burn thousands of gallons of fuel per journey.

Manchester should have had an underground system constructed at the end of WW2 in the 1940s.If an underground had been constructed integrated with trains busses and metrolink there would not be traffic congestion that we have today. There has always been an unfair investment in the North South divide and Manchester City Council could not even get HS2 to extend to Manchester.

Well overdue thanks to shortsighted Westminster. Manchester is becoming a mega city. Perfectly obvious transport needs to keep in line.

The lack of govt. investment outside of Greater London has been shameful. About time the regions started to see equivalent levels of investment. Neoliberalism has set us back decades.

Calm down anonymous 1.06. It’s the boomers that built this city and most of the technology you’re using to communicate right now. Wrong stereotype. Most boomers I know welcome much of the incredible change we’re seeing in the city and have seen over the past couple of decades because we remember the decay, the vacant corner car parks and the generally ‘never quite recovered from the the war’ look of the sixties and seventies. It’s a boom city never mind boomer. Consign that slur to the box marked ‘do not open’.

Well at least my kids MIGHT see it happen.

Looking at some of the negative comments of just highlights one of the biggest problems with our country. We have become a country with a lack of ambition, a lack of foraward planning, and a lack of foresight. We often see what is routine for other countries and view it as impossible to achieve. For people saying it would be too difficult to build in Manchester. Why should the fact that something is difficult be a reason not to do it (if the end result is beneficial). I’m not a civil engineer, but I am an engineer……difficult is what gets me up in the morning. Finding a solution to that intractable problem is what we do……let’s have some ambition, let’s get it built.

Tunnel vision… He hasn’t ended homelessness… The poor souls (the REAL homeless.. often very young) have just been pushed out of the city centre… Mostly to the poorer areas.. there are no shelters and no buildings to shelter in, but there are some community projects… But NO, he has not really helped homelessness at all

I think it’s too late for the tunnel idea… Yes the Victorians did it in London… But they demolished many buildings to do it… There are still fake frontages they constructed to hide it in large Georgian rows… They are even now in London demolishing or physically moving old buildings to create new tunnels
But what can you demolish f
In Manchester city centre… Much has already been rebuilt on top of everything… This should have been done decades ago.

We need it now, not in 25years

If Manchester keeps expanding at the current rate this won’t be enough…